Revenues from land
Revenues from selling indulgences
Revenues from professions and backgrounds
This currency system. (1gp = 10sp = 100cp, 1cp = $1 modern American = 1 ~1300s French denier)
And with prices approximated from some historical sources, some game sources, and some good old-fashioned guesswork.
Rules for buying and selling will come later, but right now, I need this list to calibrate my other ideas.
|Item||Cost (City)||Cost (Rural)|
|Wine (Skin or Bott||5cp||10cp|
|Leather Armour (Defense 12)||25sp||50sp|
|Chain Armour (Defense 14)||10gp||-|
|Plate Armour (Defense 16)||100gp||-|
|Shield (Defense +1)||5sp||5sp|
|Light Weapon (d6 +Str. B.)||5sp||5sp|
|Medium Weapon (d6/d8+Str. B.)||2gp||5gp|
|Heavy Weapon (d10+Str. B.)||5gp||15gp|
|Arrows/Bolts||5cp each||5cp each|
|Lamp Oil (flask)||5cp||5cp|
|Block and Tackle||3sp||3sp|
|Vial or Bottle||2sp||-|
|Books and Vain Items|
|Holy Symbol (plain)||2cp||2cp|
|Mirror (silver, tiny)||20gp||-|
|Food and Cooking|
|Hirelings and Followers|
|Archer or Light Infantry||1gp/month||1gp/month|
|Armourer or Blacksmith||2gp/month||2gp/month|
|Galley Crew (60)||30gp/month||-|
|Galley (60 oars)||800gp||-|
By "small beer" do you mean beer with a low alcohol content? I don't know what small beer is, but that has been my guess.ReplyDelete
Also: plate armor is $10,000? I'm only asking so I can see if my arithmetic is correct. That's a good price for it I think.Delete
Small beer: correct, beer with low alcohol content, brewed constantly but not very well. You could drink it all day and not get drunk.Delete
Plate armour: correct, if you accept "plate armour" as "about the best armour available at the time, but not very fancy." I've seen references to ~25 livres tournois (so 25x240 denier or 6,000cp or 60gp) to £8 in 1450 (call that 16 livres tournois so 3,840 cp or 38gp) at the cheapest. Most expensive I've seen is 55 livres tournois (so 132gp).
Averaging it at $10,000 for 1000 years and an entire continent seems OK to me. And that's the cheap stuff!
Incidentally, decent modern replicas go for ~$5,000 USD.
Also also, I should reference this post more often: http://middenmurk.blogspot.ca/2015/09/body-armour.htmlDelete
cheers for the prompt replies. I love that middenmurk post as well. Shame he doesn't blog anymore.Delete
Your math is off, if we're talking 14th century england one gold pound is going to be the rough equivalent of $10,000 today, 8 pounds is like $80,000 and would buy you a little tiny farm with a cottageDelete
You 1/20 silver shilling is like $500 and your 1/160 silver penny is like $40
Are you basing those numbers on commodity prices or real estate / land prices? I found that land prices lead to very strange outcomes; working backwards from basic commodities lead to slightly more comprehensible results.Delete
I love this list and I'm going to use it. Thanks.ReplyDelete
But I'm wondering if there's a typo somewhere in here:
Cow: 8sp ($80)
Dog: 5sp ($50)
Why is a dog so close in value to a cow?
Chicken: 1cp ($1)
12 eggs: 3cp ($3)
Isn't a chicken way more valuable than this? It can lay eggs, create more chickens (with a cock), and can be eaten for way more nutritional value than 12 eggs.
I should probably replace "dog" with "hound" as in "a knight's trained hunting hound."Delete
As for chickens... you tell me! Most of the references I've found put 2 chickens = 1 dozen eggs, at the very low end of the cost scale. I really couldn't say why. Maybe it's the convenience and not having to feed and maintain them? Maybe it's just that our sources are very fragmentary? Who knows.
Chickens are hard, reproduce fast and don't need much food. They are cheap because it is easy to get a bunch of them. Also, medieval chicken probably have less meat and lays less eggs.Delete
"Chicken are hard" I mean they don't die easily compared animals of similar size like hares for example.Delete
A little research indicates that:Delete
1. Buying a "chicken" probably meant buying a chick, and it took six months to a year for them to reach prime egg laying age.
2. As other people have said, you have to feed the chick unproductively until it starts laying eggs.
3. Chickens were free range because they were used to eat insects and snails off of vegetables, so you had to have someone watching them all day long (usually a child or a maid) and that's labor that could be spent elsewhere.
4. They were smaller and laid fewer eggs than our modern chickens.
Given all that, it makes sense why a dozen eggs costs more.
I highly disagree with point 3, you don't need to watch them all day long... My mother's family has a farm with some chickens. They are smart enough to avoid predators, stay near the main house and even know the feeding and sleeping times. You can make your life as a poultry keeper a lot easier if you have a house for your poultry and some places where they can lay eggs calmly (chickens tends to use always the same place to lay eggs).Delete
The well-researched academic article I read said chickens were free-range and were tended by someone to avoid being eaten by predators.Delete
It's still cheaper to buy a chicken than to buy a dozen eggs, at least in the United States.Delete
a gurps like list of yearly income for various social classes and jobs would help thisReplyDelete
It's a bit scattered becauseDelete
1. The First Estate has negative income at low levels (and needs to sell Indulgences)
2. The Second Estate has [revenue from land] - [upkeep], and land revenue is calculated on a case-by-case basis
3. The Third Estate has different earning levels based on profession (and also land).
Putting prices in GP instead of £/s./d. makes it really hard to read, haha!ReplyDelete
But I'm probably one of the few steeped in the 240/12/1 system that it makes more sense to me for medieval prices.
What about a column in livres tournois? :)
If I put it in old money, some poor history student is going to find this post and treat it as an academic source. I don't want to be responsible for that kind of trouble. :)Delete
Plus, the historical price lists I linked to (and others you can find) already have values in all sorts of currencies. It's neat but not very gameable. Prices also varied enormously. This list sacrifices nuance for convenience.
I've attempted to do this myself many times but I always get stuck at trying to differentiate all the possible vegetables and herbs (like chives versus leaks) and then I start worrying about seasonal availability and it's like aaaaagh basically I never get past food let alone figuring out weapons.ReplyDelete
One thing I made to simplify food and stuff is to price a group instead of specific herbs.Delete
Common spice - 10gp per pound (salt, pepper)
Rare spice - 100gp per pound (sugar, ginger)
Rarest spice - 1000gp per pound (saffron)
Yeahhh, another price list to add to the pile!! It's always great to have something to base your in-game prices on, especially since D&D and clones have a nasty habit of making prices inconsistent (and insanely high! Plate armor costs 13.5 kg (30 lbs) of pure gold in both 3.5 and 5e!) Ironically, real world stuff is often much more strange and interesting than the generic fantasy...ReplyDelete
Oh yeah, coin values are weird. Unless you have a good baseline to estimate values everything ends up being weird.Delete
(And if you never list the weight of coins, you can get away with being a little inconsistent in the value of treasure, because the PCs can't just melt it down to get more cash magically.)
30lbs of gold is crazy high. Pricing a full plate harness at 8 pounds sterling , you're talking about 7lbs of silver. That's about .458lbs of gold, reckoning a sterling pence at 1.5g of silver and a florin at 3.5g of gold, and a florin being worth 3 shillings.Delete
50d for night in a tavern..? Are you trying to rent me WHOLE tavern for a night? :)ReplyDelete
Hey, that 50d get you a big bowl of stew, some bread, some beer and a good spot away from the rats.Delete
For a price of a hog..? Or brand new axe? For around 75 grams of silver..? Like, even D&D declares multiple tiers of lodging in one tavern, from floor in the main room till separate number. Your price comparison may suit our days, with it's industry, economics, petrochemicals and excess of rich slackers... But not medieval times. Making things took weeks on one-by-one basis back then.Delete
I think, you overprice meals and lodging, and, as usual for RPG, bows.
Maybe, you will find it useful to consult Phillip McGregor's Orbis Mundi, as a supplement to your search.
The whole goal was to get this system within 1 order of magnitude of true. There will be some variance.Delete
Multiple tiers work, but I figure GMs can easily approximate that on the fly.
Also, you're converting stuff back to silver weight and pence and getting confused. That's the problem.
I'm an engineer, weights and materials can't confuse me. :)Delete
I'm pointing out some flaws in your system and it's internal corresponding. For example, take a look at tavern's price for night, or price of a meal - and, for example, monthly prices for followers. Or other prices. For example, monthly wage of hired archer buys him two nights in a tavern, or 20 standard meals...
This whole thing makes usual inn a very exquisite place, like, medieval version of Hilton or Marriott, that can be visited regularly only by wealthiest merchants and nobles.
Your own room in an inn would have been a remarkable extravagance. In that period inns were rare and most would have had a common room rather than private rooms. The ones with private rooms would be booked in advance and would also be shared rather than individual, with at best a closet bed for privacy. Yes. A stay in your own room in medieval europe was the equivalent of the Hilton. This is the period when people hadn't started building corridors and to get to you own room or another part of the building in a mansion or castle it would not be unusual to walk through someone elses bedroom. While they slept in it. That's why you always see fourposter beds in old stately homes. It was to provide privacy.ReplyDelete
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ReplyDelete
Sorry, accidentally deleted this commment!Delete
The question was something like "How do you calibrate GP to XP?". The answer is that, pretty much no matter what, players will be rolling in ludicrous stacks of cash fairly quickly. I chose 200gp per level for low levels, slowly rising to 300-500gp per level. I eyeballed it as "if you survive leveling up, you can afford plate armour, a horse, and a sword now."
Adjusting the currency to XP curve is definitely something you'll need to fiddle with if you're adjusting currency values.