tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post7879761350919232276..comments2024-03-28T01:02:01.844-06:00Comments on Coins and Scrolls: OSR: Baboons, Goblins, and Bicameral KoboldsSkerpleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06393779599461560431noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-65284513880524211022021-12-20T09:27:23.785-07:002021-12-20T09:27:23.785-07:00This was amusing enough on its own.
It was more a...This was amusing enough on its own.<br /><br />It was more amusing when it veered off to talk about The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, one of my favorite pop-psych fringe theories. (I've owned at least three copies of that book over the years.)<br /><br />It made me squeal and clap when it cited a TV Tropes page that =I STARTED.=Your Obedient Serpenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07133256640355844314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-12898138732322206522021-09-23T10:53:59.498-06:002021-09-23T10:53:59.498-06:00I used to do academic research on the cognitive ne...I used to do academic research on the cognitive neuroscience of language so I get really into this kind of stuff, even if that's no longer the kind of work I do. While I've read a lot of academic journal articles, I have not read some of these older books, but I should do so because these are fascinating topics :).maxcan7https://www.blogger.com/profile/12504030224075149157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-7489858796262894362021-09-23T10:28:14.380-06:002021-09-23T10:28:14.380-06:00This is some Origins of the Bi-cameral Mind level ...This is some Origins of the Bi-cameral Mind level shit and I'm here for it.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11103061574208320331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-32514024336421989622021-09-22T13:50:19.276-06:002021-09-22T13:50:19.276-06:00I think you give humans too much credit. Obviously...I think you give humans too much credit. Obviously we are more capable than baboons, but principally cognition is nowhere near as coherent as most people think. I agree that there is an uncanniness in the idea of a first person narrative where the reader must necessarily confront that this is a being with self awareness and agency while also seeing the machinery break down underneath that and expose all of the ways in which that consciousness is actually just a bunch of heuristics, pre- and post-processing, interpolation and extrapolation and inference off of data that are both more rich and more impoverished than we perceive them to be. There are many reasons why cognition / consciousness is nowhere near as coherent as most people think, but among them, and I think most relevant to this blog post, is that there is simply often a greater latency to the response.<br /><br />We all, not figuratively / hyperbolically all, truly all of us, make decisions which are wholly irrational, short sighted, not actually warranted given the data available to us per se, etc., but if the number of variables and interactions between those variables, time among them, are sufficiently complex, it can be difficult to map the feedback to it's origin. This is among many other things of course, not the whole story.<br /><br />But this also raises an interesting speculative fiction question. What if a "baboon" leverages that to their favor? If our hypothetical creature, we'll continue along with baboon, can somehow recognize that it has this extreme limitation in impulse control, it can start tooling itself around that fact, and then it has developed a framework to systematically get faster feedback than it's "smarter" competition. Now realistically a baboon is not going to be able to do that, it's just too limited. But maybe a kobold.maxcan7https://www.blogger.com/profile/12504030224075149157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-57785346329474775192021-09-22T11:51:46.258-06:002021-09-22T11:51:46.258-06:00Dwarves can imagine things, it's just that the...Dwarves can imagine things, it's just that their imaginations don't loop through the visual/auditory systems like most humans'. They don't "see" a weapon before making it, in the same way that you probably don't visualize a dish before cooking it. They just make it. Some sculptors say that working with stone is "freeing the sculpture from the block", and Dwarves love analogies like that. Skerpleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06393779599461560431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-63378336192316382932021-09-22T07:29:08.467-06:002021-09-22T07:29:08.467-06:00Love your take on Goblins. But, when it comes to d...Love your take on Goblins. But, when it comes to dwarves (if we are talking the traditional fantasy trope) wouldn't the "lack" of imagination be a hindrance in creating weapons in general. For me the dwarves always had this middle-ground between a comic robot-like pragmatism in working, as well as a strong creative will. <br />Not necessarily "artsy" but a pragmatic creativity (the best/most useful weapon, lock, fortress, etc.) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02813239775408651325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-50073396308089658452021-09-21T22:49:24.960-06:002021-09-21T22:49:24.960-06:00That was super interesting, thank you!That was super interesting, thank you!dave dowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06318272469276577477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-5096052766206059792021-09-21T19:02:43.620-06:002021-09-21T19:02:43.620-06:00Stealing this for kobolds many thx. Also that is t...Stealing this for kobolds many thx. Also that is the most concise description of the standard fantasy Dwarven psyche i have ever read!Mykola Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01644966299145300860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-13428378887206117532021-09-21T18:41:28.316-06:002021-09-21T18:41:28.316-06:00This is brilliant. Definitely gives a solid explan...This is brilliant. Definitely gives a solid explanation as to why the master trap setting kobolds and goblins *can* be organized, but aren't. And when they are, taking their leader away results in chaos.Josiahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780740987200902448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1958522416503442248.post-15017032505710104492021-09-21T15:17:59.765-06:002021-09-21T15:17:59.765-06:00Goblins in my games are already slightly more clev...Goblins in my games are already slightly more clever baboons, so this post works really really well for my games hehe.Janethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12975772319839361784noreply@blogger.com